Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 55

Thread: Timeline of the recent fight over Hawkins Hollow

  1. #26
    Trail Leader bookfiend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Casparis
    Posts
    236
    I think I fixed the link, worked when I checked it.

  2. #27
    I have grease stains on the knees of my dockers Muzikman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    4028.104'N 7949.208'W
    Posts
    6,317
    Yep, works now.
    Jason "Muzikman" Beam
    Pittsburgh (Penn Hills), PA

    The Xterra
    The Jeep

  3. #28
    Less posting, more wheeling! Deadman 94 xj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Glenshaw
    Posts
    4,778
    Hello all, Im new on this forum. This probably isn't the thread for a first post but I think the real concern is about garabage! And the money spent to clean it up, fuel, equipment, ect. Instead of hireing 10 sheriffs to gaurd the road they should hire 3 game officials to hand out citations to all the retards that like to sit out there on there tail gates and throw beer cans around. They do the same thing on other parts of the yach, why not there?
    Its funny because I've been out there a few times with friends and had a blast drivin through indian creek. I missed it so much that I went out this weekend to try and find it and I got lost...

  4. #29
    Trail Leader bookfiend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Casparis
    Posts
    236
    It's not about the garbage. It's mostly about one guy wanting to charge people to go down it, because he owns the top.

    The water authority sherriffs did a pretty good job taming the retarded behavior that went on down there. Yes, there is still some garbage, but not like it used to be. ANywhere you go that is remote and offroadable, dumbasses will drop garbage, that is why some of us make it a point to pick some up EVERY SINGLE TIME WE GO!!!! And make sure other people and strangers see us doing it and try to talk to them about it.

    ANd no, the game commission thankfully has no part of this little valley. Yet.

  5. #30
    Trail Leader bookfiend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Casparis
    Posts
    236
    Read this article if you want to see how the game officers view fourwheeling, ATVs and Jeeps included:

    PGC cracks down on game lands ATV riders

    They rant and rave about all the 'illegal ATV use' in that gamelands. But anybody whos ever rode that mountain and checked it out on a map or aerial view, knows what a little piece of it is gamelands, on this side of the river anyway. They focused on the caves/mines because they were dangerous, but now they are blasted shut.

    They make absolutely no mention of the fact that the majority of the mountain is owned by several families who not only ride ATVs and offroad themselves, but will stop strangers on their property - tell them they are welcome to ride, but please do so responsibly and pack out your trash!


    And isn't this like the pot calling the kettle black?:

    "It was actually kind of comical," said Matt Hough, law enforcement supervisor in the PGC's southwest region office. "One guy who was with us had three messages on his machine by the time he got home, telling him to watch out because we were patrolling the area."




  6. #31
    Premium Supporting Member OverkillZJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Venetia, PA
    Posts
    15,526
    ...ugh!

  7. #32
    I have grease stains on the knees of my dockers Muzikman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    4028.104'N 7949.208'W
    Posts
    6,317
    Hmmm, last week when i talked to someone at the Connellsville public works (did not get a name as I got passed around a few times), he mentioned the area was being patroled more. He did not know if the main trail was still a township road (it's still on maps as such). My guess is this was what he was talking about as being patroled (by the game commission). There are only two trails back there that I know are on Game Lands, the rest I think are all private lands (most being owned by the quarry and the Foley's (sp?).

    EDIT: I wonder what was more fun for the folks patroling, busting people or the trail riding it's self? My guess, the trail riding.
    Jason "Muzikman" Beam
    Pittsburgh (Penn Hills), PA

    The Xterra
    The Jeep

  8. #33
    Trail Leader bookfiend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Casparis
    Posts
    236
    Well, I know they were really into keeping people out of the caves/mines for liability reasons. Now that they are blasted shut, you wouldn't think they'd have such a problem with it. The Foleys are the ones who own the lowest parts, up to the mines and up to and including the cabin and little dam in front of it. The main road coming in up from South Connellsville is township road, has been maintained somewhat. Griping about where to get the money is always done beforehand.

    You yelled at a guy for posting a pic of his truck perched on the Foleys road edge blockage, near the reservoir I think it was. They have always kept the quad trails that appear on their land blocked off with brush and downed logs. Most people look at the brushpiles and their posted signs and understand and respect their intent. Past the Foley's property you start seeing all those little signs on the trees that look like license plates, and say Nicholson and Sons lumber co.? These are the nice folks that will introduce themselves to riders, and politely ask that you respect the land and not litter while riding. The stone quarry company owns the lands between Nicholsons and the MAWC, that is not gameland. The rock alley trail goes through gamelands. If you read the www.fay-west.com history he claims people used to use the road from south connellsville all the way to Hampton, but doesn't give any detail about which route it actually was.

    I looked up the census info and Springfield Township had 3111 people at the last census. It is one of the townships with a small populace but large landmass that is looking to combine with other area townships for some kind of group power gig. I'm not sure how far they've gotten on that. Especially around the Ohiopyle area, the townships are hurt by having a small population, few tax dollars coming in from big businesses, and massive amounts of land, thus massive amounts of roads and bridges to take care of.

    Maybe Springfield Township and the MAWC would be impressed if we volunteered to try to raise some money by voluntary donations. I bet most people would rather see the whole township benefit than one private individual. They own the road, they could use the money to fix up the road, the public could use the road for their enjoyment.

  9. #34
    Less posting, more wheeling!
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Foothills of the Laurel Mtns..
    Posts
    4,239
    nice way to think outside the box...i agree with you. instead of arguing to keep the road open to benefit us. lets try to benefit the whole township, and if money is an issue, perhaps a fund drive or donation event would be helpful

  10. #35
    Drunk-Bus Driver! r6cyclegal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Crafton
    Posts
    3,635
    Bump since the meeting is Wed Nov 7 at 7pm
    "When you're single, you're exactly as happy as you are.
    When you're married, you can only be as happy as the least happy person in the relationship" -Rules of Engagement

    "Friendship is like peeing in your pants. Everyone can see it, but only you can feel it's true warmth."

    "Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak."

    2000 Grand Laredo 2"BB, 245/75/16 BFG AT/KOs

  11. #36
    Less posting, more wheeling!
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Foothills of the Laurel Mtns..
    Posts
    4,239
    is this meeting at the fire hall just before Yogi Bears camp site? a few miles away from ohio pyle?

  12. #37
    I have grease stains on the knees of my dockers Muzikman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    4028.104'N 7949.208'W
    Posts
    6,317
    That sounds like it would be the one. It's the Springfield VFD on Mill Run Rd (381).
    Jason "Muzikman" Beam
    Pittsburgh (Penn Hills), PA

    The Xterra
    The Jeep

  13. #38
    "Has anyone ever mistaken the chicken outside for a crab?" JeepGeneral's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Jeannette, PA
    Posts
    2,380
    Does anyone have a physical address so I can Mapquest it? I think I know where it is but would like to be sure.

  14. #39
    PghOffRoad Regular
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    To Be Determined (TBD) by the US Gov't. within the next 6 months.
    Posts
    143
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzikman View Post
    Bump...


    The link in the petition thread seems to be wrong.

    Can we get this and the petition thread stickied?
    Jason=no printer on this end, would you be willing to snail-mail me a copy??? PM for the address, or I'll post it here...no worries on that end.
    [CENTER][B]"Success is how high you bounce when you hit the bottom..." Gen. George S. Patton[/B][/CENTER]
    [CENTER] [/CENTER]
    [CENTER][B]"If it weren't for the last minute, alot of things wouldn't get done." Micheal S. Traylor[/B][/CENTER]
    [CENTER] [/CENTER]
    [CENTER][B]"If you are going to speak to me in circles, at least pull your foot out of your mouth!" SSG Joseph Wentzel[/B][/CENTER]

    [CENTER][SIGPIC][/SIGPIC][/CENTER]
    [CENTER] [/CENTER]
    [CENTER]GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!!!!![/CENTER]
    [SIZE=4][/SIZE]

  15. #40
    I have grease stains on the knees of my dockers Muzikman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    4028.104'N 7949.208'W
    Posts
    6,317
    Not worth it now. The meeting has been bumped up to tomorrow. No chance you would get the petition and get it back to someone who will be there.
    Jason "Muzikman" Beam
    Pittsburgh (Penn Hills), PA

    The Xterra
    The Jeep

  16. #41
    PghOffRoad Regular
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    To Be Determined (TBD) by the US Gov't. within the next 6 months.
    Posts
    143
    Dammit! Okay, bro...I tried, sorry!!!!!!!
    [CENTER][B]"Success is how high you bounce when you hit the bottom..." Gen. George S. Patton[/B][/CENTER]
    [CENTER] [/CENTER]
    [CENTER][B]"If it weren't for the last minute, alot of things wouldn't get done." Micheal S. Traylor[/B][/CENTER]
    [CENTER] [/CENTER]
    [CENTER][B]"If you are going to speak to me in circles, at least pull your foot out of your mouth!" SSG Joseph Wentzel[/B][/CENTER]

    [CENTER][SIGPIC][/SIGPIC][/CENTER]
    [CENTER] [/CENTER]
    [CENTER]GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!!!!![/CENTER]
    [SIZE=4][/SIZE]

  17. #42
    Trail Leader
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Bethel Park
    Posts
    386
    Can anyone give any current information on this? I haven't seen an update in a long while.
    97 Jeep TJ 4in. lift 35" MT, winch, 8.8
    2000 Dodge Cummins, Auto to 5 speed swap complete.

  18. #43
    Less posting, more wheeling!
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Latrobe
    Posts
    3,477
    Yeah im kinda wondering the same thing I have read all these post but there is no end. What happened with this area some on the board say its illegal I look other places and some actually encourage use of the property does anyone know?

  19. #44
    I have grease stains on the knees of my dockers Muzikman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    4028.104'N 7949.208'W
    Posts
    6,317
    Hawkins Hollow is closed. You can not legally drive down the road any longer and being on the land is trespassing.
    Jason "Muzikman" Beam
    Pittsburgh (Penn Hills), PA

    The Xterra
    The Jeep

  20. #45
    Moderator Powerguy37's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Sunnyvale Trailer Park
    Posts
    1,922
    As far as I know nothing has changed from the last few years since the township abandoned the road and gated it. It's still illegal to be down there.

    That's not to say the locals don't still go down there and do whatever they did before. All they have done is keep the responsible people from enjoying the land.

  21. #46
    Official PghOffRoad Post Whore! ridgerunner97's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    North Huntingdon, Pa
    Posts
    5,248
    Well you can pay Leon 5 bucks to go down his gated road he won from the township and be on his property, he asks if your goin to blue hole cuz its illegal he warns but you get access to the hollow for five bucks. Other option is hiking down from mill run reservoir on the old ICVRR grade which is part of the proposed indian creek valley hike bike trail so i'm venturing to say that being in the hollow is not illegal but how you go about traveling into the hollow is where legality is determined. No Motorized vehicles on the MAWC side where the ICVRR grade is, but foot traffic and bikes are allowed. On leon's side where the gated township road comes down, you pay leon 5 bucks and he opens the gate and lets ya down on foot,quad,horse,bicycle,truck, watever you want. Its confusing and its hard to say what is legal and what is not. Ive already stated what i know but take it with the knowledge that it is a gray area that hollow.

  22. #47
    I have grease stains on the knees of my dockers Muzikman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    4028.104'N 7949.208'W
    Posts
    6,317
    The problem is, 90% of that road is owned by the Westmoreland Water Authority (not Leon). It was legal to travel the road before as it was a township road not private property. Now that it's private property it would be trespassing. Just because "Leon" opens the gate, does not make it legal to be on any other land than his, which is just the top of the hill.

    BTW. **** Leon!
    Jason "Muzikman" Beam
    Pittsburgh (Penn Hills), PA

    The Xterra
    The Jeep

  23. #48
    "Has anyone ever mistaken the chicken outside for a crab?" JeepGeneral's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Jeannette, PA
    Posts
    2,380
    I, along with many other PGHOR members were at the meeting when it was decided that Hawkins Hollow would be gated and closed. It used to be considered a township road, which was legal to drive on. If you left the road, you were trespassing on someone else's property. Some was owned by the water authority, some by Stone and Company, some by the Leon fellow (can't remember his full name), and a small portion by a local family who were at the meeting.

    Before the road was gated, Leon tried to charge people who drove down the road, which was illegal. He did not own the road, he owned the property surrounding it (the part closest to the top from what I recall). Now that the road is closed, the road becomes owned by the property owners surrounding the road. From what we were told, all the property owners have a key. It sounds like this Leon fellow is charging people to access his property, however if you go any further down the old road, you are trespassing on others property.

    Unless they all banded together and are taking a cut of the proceeds from his $5 gate charge, if you travel the whole way to the Indian Creek crossing, you will still be trespassing. I find this hard to believe, he was not very well liked by the locals and other property owners at the meeting. I also can't see the water authority or Stone and Co. being interested in a small portion of money to let people access their land.

  24. #49
    "Has anyone ever mistaken the chicken outside for a crab?" JeepGeneral's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Jeannette, PA
    Posts
    2,380
    Jason beat me to it!

  25. #50
    Official PghOffRoad Post Whore! ridgerunner97's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    North Huntingdon, Pa
    Posts
    5,248
    Thanks guys for the info, all i can say to those interested in goin down there do sum research. I'll have to do sum diggin but i think Leon Shal, thats the dudes name that owns the gate has purchased more property in that hollow in the past year and a half. Don't hold me too it and don't start callin bullshit on it until i can verify guys. May take me a few weeks of digging and phone calls but ill get a verdict on what is owned by him and post it up. The problem is that so much shit has switched around and the legal bullshit is kneedeep up there and rising so its hard to say what is the real truth, i'll do my best to get an answer.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Hawkins Hollow
    By fd66tom in forum General Off-Road Discussion
    Replies: 73
    Last Post: 01-27-2010, 07:08 PM
  2. Hawkins Hollow Trail conditions?
    By Trailhead4x4 in forum General Off-Road Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-23-2009, 02:54 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •